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 BBC Disability Ministry Blog » When do we get to talk about the other consequences of abortion, Mr. President?

 161 Comments- Add comment | Back to Home Written on 18-May-2009 by john.knightsr
I've read the transcript of your speech to the graduates of Notre Dame, Mr. President.  I have a question: Do words mean anything to you, Mr. President?  
 
In your story about the doctor who challenged a statement on your website as you ran for the presidency, you said this:
 
He wrote, "I do not ask at this point that you oppose abortion, only that you speak about this issue in fair-minded words." Fair-minded words.  
 
After I read the doctor's letter, I wrote back to him and I thanked him. And I didn't change my underlying position (emphasis mine), but I did tell my staff to change the words on my website. And I said a prayer that night that I might extend the same presumption of good faith to others that the doctor had extended to me. Because when we do that -- when we open up our hearts and our minds to those who may not think precisely like we do or believe precisely what we believe -- that's when we discover at least the possibility of common ground.
 
That's when we begin to say, "Maybe we won't agree on abortion, but we can still agree that this heart-wrenching decision for any woman is not made casually, it has both moral and spiritual dimensions.
 
So let us work together to reduce the number of women seeking abortions, let's reduce unintended pregnancies. (Applause.) Let's make adoption more available. (Applause.) Let's provide care and support for women who do carry their children to term. (Applause.) Let's honor the conscience of those who disagree with abortion, and draft a sensible conscience clause, and make sure that all of our health care policies are grounded not only in sound science, but also in clear ethics, as well as respect for the equality of women." Those are things we can do. (Applause.)

So, is that the point, Mr. President - we get to talk, but the underlying positions get to remain the same?  The only thing that actually changes is we think a little more charitably about each other? 

Please, sir, tell me how that is supposed to make a difference? 

I have a few more questions, Mr. President:

When do we get to talk about how the behavior of men on virtually every measurable level has gotten worse since abortion was made legal across the United States?  Men are more likely to leave women today, more likely to be abusive, less likely to care for the children they father, and less likely to consider the consequences of their sexual behavior.  Up to 75% of marriages that have a disabled child end in divorce, and most of the time it is the man who walks away from his family.  When do we get to talk about men being encouraged to act like men rather than petulant, irresponsible, selfish little boys?
 
When do we get to talk about the cultural expectation that a mother is expected to abort her baby with an identified disability in the womb? Doctors, nurses, social workers assume a diagnosis of downs syndrome or spina bifida means a woman should terminate the pregnancy.  What do you call a 90% abortion rate, Mr. President?  If it were babies of any ethnicity, you would rightly call it genocide.  What do you believe about families in this situation, Mr. President? 
 
Finally, Mr. President, you said yourself that "the strong too often dominate the weak."  Please explain to me, Mr. President, who is more weak and thus more worthy of your protection as the leader of the free world than a baby in his or her mother's womb?

But, of course, I'm just part of that opposition not really worthy of your attention or of 'Open hearts. Open minds. Fair-minded words.'  How did you put it?

"You'll hear talking heads scream on cable, and you'll read blogs that claim definitive knowledge, and you will watch politicians pretend they know what they're talking about." 
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Comments

  • written on 18-May-2009

    Chris Wilson [http://www.paynevillebaptist.org] says:

    Wow! Thank you for speaking truth.

  • written on 18-May-2009

    Zachary Anderson says:

    Thank You!

  • written on 18-May-2009

    Kim says:

    I ditto the "Wow!". Wonderfully stated, straight to the point/heart. I sincerely hope this was sent to Obama.

  • written on 18-May-2009

    Ryan says:

    Thank you!

  • written on 18-May-2009

    david grace says:

    great! right in line with proverbs 25:11 "a word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in a setting of silver."

  • written on 18-May-2009

    James Robins says:

    Most Godly and so close to the heart of GOD!
    May Christs power amplify your voice into the very heart of policy makers all over this planet!
    James robins
    Lancashire
    England.

  • written on 18-May-2009

    Jane Peterson says:

    My son is a police officer. His most difficult call last night involved persuading a 17-year-old girl NOT to commit suicide from guilt over her recent abortion. No lack of victims in the cultural expectations of abortion.

  • written on 18-May-2009

    dan miller says:

    Thank you for speaking out for those who can't. I wholeheartedly agree with you.
    God bless you for speaking out.

  • written on 18-May-2009

    Dewey Wise [http://www.hopefruitandberryfarm.com] says:

    Is there some way that we may know if the president will get your thoughts? I praise God for your thoughts and questions. May God richly bless you.

  • written on 18-May-2009

    Christy Keyton says:

    As a mother of a beautiful three year old girl with Downs Syndrome, I cried when I read your response to the President's speech. Our Hannah Grace is considered a GIFT to our family. I am honored to be her mother. May God bless your words and may He use them to pierce the hearts of many with the truth.

  • written on 18-May-2009

    Sandy Gardner says:

    Thank you for your pointed and precious questions to our president. I can only hope more of our citizenry and leadership carefully and prayerfully consider such questions. May we all live in ways that protect human life, as John Piper biblically portrayed, as the only life made in God's image and made eternal, and as C.S. Lewis pointed out, individually more important than whole nations, which rise and fall.

  • written on 18-May-2009

    Scott Qualls says:

    God bless you and may we all step up to protect the innocent-by making our voices heard to the politicians and through voting. All babies are a blessing from God, even the "disabled" ones!

  • written on 18-May-2009

    Terry [http://adisciplesthoughts.blogspot.com] says:

    Thank you for caring for children!

  • written on 18-May-2009

    Philemon says:

    Did someone ever challenge President Obama to watch how the babies die in the wombs, to see if his would be really opened? Mr. President, Í challenge you to watch what you agree to, persuade your wife and your lovely daughters to watch it with you. Would you be proud before them? Would your words be fair to the babies?

  • written on 18-May-2009

    Mac says:

    "For whoever finds me finds life
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  • written on 19-May-2009

    Tim says:

    I'm a Christian in China and what i know is abortion is legal and is really happened quite often in lots of cities.
    we are lost in this complicated world, we can't see this thing as a murder(we even don't know what true life is). For the new generation in our country it's just a byproduct with the "new era".I dare say lots of Chinese like your new president. he is black and cool, charming, and keeping the pace of the "new era"(which is driven by evil).
    the world is small and your policy is deeply influenced our society.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Sarah says:

    I am saddened to see how the concept of getting to the root of the problem has escaped your perception. Clearly Mr. Obama was trying to come to a place where two opposing sides can come together to work on solving some of the problems associated with women that get abortions such as unwanted teenage pregnancies, increasing incentives for adoption, and providing support and help to families with unexpected pregnancies. I fail to see how the act of coming together to work on common problems is a bad thing. I believe you should feel ashamed of yourself. I will continue to pray that everyone put their differences aside and work on common problems in society versus sticking your heels in the ground and trying to constantly change the minds of others. May God help you get back to the Good road.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Sandy says:

    hank you for your pointed and precious questions to our president. I can only hope more of our citizenry and leadership carefully and prayerfully consider such questions. May we all live in ways that protect human life, as John Piper biblically portrayed, as the only life made in God's image and made eternal, and as C.S. Lewis pointed out, individually more important than whole nations, which rise and fall.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Don says:

    President Obama is a smooth talker. To the casual listener his speech at Notre Dame was beautiful. Thank you for examining his words and laying them out in the light. We must always do this because time goes on it is becoming clearer to me that this is Obama's greatest strength- he has the amazing abilility to use words to make evil seem good, and good seem evil.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Deedub says:

    One of the valid criticisms against Richard Dawkins' book the God Delusion is that he just goes on emotional rants without really addressing with substance the valid claims of faith or the sound reasons for considering intelligent design, he simply rails against them with emotional, preaching to the choir statements. Sadly, I think this is what brother Knight has done in response to Obama's speech; the speech was quoted but no considerations were given to the points made.

    For instance, I'm assuming John Knight does not believe in the power of rational persuasion, as if the issue is to only change the president's mind...as if his mind cannot change, as if minds don't change as a consequence of rational and "charitable" conversation. Obama is arguing that a method for democratic processes in a plural society is not to face off in culture wars but instead to speak to each other. Indeed, Obama's example showed a willingness to listen and adjust his behavior, i.e. his web site based on what he heard. Exactly, why is that problematic? John, I don't feel you answered that in an intelligent and fair way. But that is a key premise in Obama's argument. Dialogue achieves something. Isn't there how witnessing works, some plant, some water...eventually a harvest is reached?

    I also don't think you responded to Obama's challenge to reduce the number of abortions and unwanted pregnancies, given that Roe v. Wade is not going to be changed any time in the near future, is there a real interest in actually saving the lives of the unborn or only getting worked up around policy principles? Do you want to see more people decide to have children as opposed to aborting them, is there no spiritual and moral victory in having more people CHOOSE life instead of only being forced to accept life? I think murder was defined once by someone as not just actually killing but also hating, I think there is an inward principle that is being critically missed, at some level the Christian obsession has to be with who those folks who choose to not abort become spiritually and morally in their decision. Please flesh out how Obama's ambition does not deliver near tangible near term value. You didn't address this.

    Moreover, I think we've not had a president in recent history who has more consistently spoke out against the problems of irresponsible fatherhood than Obama has; it has been a preoccupation for him. But my question is that you associate legal abortion with a host of other social pathologies but you don't make any attempt to connect them, e.g. how does legalized abortion relate to how men treat women, accept or do not accept responsibility for their born children or even relate to sexual carelessness?

    What I read in your posting was merely a preaching to the choir diatribe that doesn't say anything to Obama or liberals or anyone else for that matter. I, for one, I'm weary of the dumbing down of the dialogue around this issue and it is too important, and the influence of the church around these issues too necessary, for someone to come around and float an apparent critical response to what the president said that it is really a simplistic ideological statement that adds nothing. I say this respectfully because I love John Piper's ministry, but I will say this, if we pursued the sharing of the doctrines of grace with this same degree of carelessness, no one would ever know what we mean.

    Please try again and next time actually address what was said...substantive conversation = authentic conversation.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Mark [http://www.godskingdomfirst.org] says:

    When you said, "we get to talk, but the underlying positions get to remain the same," I think you missed Obama's point. He said, "I didn't change my underlying position" which is that a woman has a right to choose what she does with her body. But the fact that he is openly and honestly talking about the other factors involved, and the concerns of both sides, indicates a direction toward communication between opposing sides that is necessary for anything to get accomplished in this world. Like Sarah's comment above, I fail to see how the act of coming together to work on common problems is a bad thing.

    He also said, "...the fact is that at some level, the views of the two camps are irreconcilable. Each side will continue to make its case to the public with passion and conviction. But surely we can do so without reducing those with differing views to caricature." This is true. Until Christ returns to set up his Kingdom, this world will continue to be under the influence of evil. Do you really think outlawing abortion will solve the problems you listed? There is no simple answer to the problems we face, due to man's fallen nature. God will eventually solve them in the next world. But in the meantime, society has to deal with opposing sides of all of the "hot-button issues" and that will never happen as long as people on either extreme refuse to consider, and even demonize, the other side's viewpoint.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Simon says:

    Thank you Mr Knight for speaking out, it is good that christian leaders show others the way, I am an South African, and we also have a Communist President ( Jacob Zuma) now just like America has. Who dialogues with a communist. Abortion is Anti Christ and anti the Bible and that is all there is to it. Maybe the folks who critisize ought to consider the Scriptures and compare Obama with that. I have followed everything people said about the American election and everything Obama did and said in his first 100 days.
    The people must stop idolizing Obama and other political leaders and call them to account like you have.
    Yours in Christ
    Simon
    Johannesburg.
    South Africa.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Larry NFOR says:

    That is great to know there are people who have their minds and words in place. Power, Power, when will you loose your grip on those with hearts that are willing to do right. When one gets to power, true politics begin - things that would not be considered during campaigns are now a priority - bureau pressure?
    Thanks John, for calling on the president to rethink and reconsider who He is in God's sight, we still look up to him for lots of things. His priorities and words therefore need to be set right as soon as possible.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Mark [http://www.godskingdomfirst.org] says:

    Simon, with all due respect, it is that kind of thinking that adds fuel to anti-Christian attitudes. As Christians we are to communicate God's will, not spout diatribes and factual errors. Regardless of anyone's opinion of President Obama, he is not a communist. And while abortion may be against God's will, that is not "all there is to it." It is a complex issue with no easy answer. If this world were under God's rulership (as it will be when Christ returns) things would be much simpler. But as long as Christians and non-Christians live together in this country, there has to be cooperation and communication. I don't idolize Obama but I do agree with his idea of both camps working together to solve problems.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Raffy says:

    Mr Knight thank you for standing up for truth and honoring Jesus with your life and choices.

    I'm sure many people (including Christians) have much to say about political correctness and diplomacy in our tone when dealing with issues such as this. I simply believe that the reason why we are, and will be, the most hated group by all nations (as our Lord said) will be because we declare their works to be evil and call them to repentance. There was no political correctness in Jesus' tone when He told people about hell or called Herod a fox. Abortion becomes trivial when you take God out of the picture. But when we bring the conversation to revolve around Him with whom we have to do, we show that it is a massively important subject because God is the giver of life and He will reward every man according to His works.

    I truly think issues such as this will train us to have steel and iron in our spiritual bones so that we stand up for Jesus against the antichirst himself, since this is clearly the spirit of the antichrist at work in the world.

    Jesus is glorious,

    Raffy
    Philippines

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Bryan says:

    Your observations about the (ir)responsibility of men and its bearing on the abortion problem are insightful. What if every woman facing an unplanned pregnancy knew that the father of her child was going to stick around? What if men were willing to deny themselves sex absent a marital commitment? The issues would be very different indeed.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Shane says:

    Remember, that we can not stop saying some of these same argumenets against abortion even while there is a president who is 'open to discussion', but 'not changing his mind'. This would occur if genocide was happening and the side killing the other people said they wanted to talk, yet proceeded to still murder more people. We can say yes please talk and listen to what we are saying, but also STOP KILLING THE WONDERFUL CHILDREN! I want you to know that I do pray for people like my mother who has had abortions and love and care for them with all my broken heart, but I pray for the murder to stop and the children to be born and learn the glory of Christ's work on this earth. I love you all please, feel my urgency not to be satisfied with Obama's speech and still fight against: genocide, murder, and abortion.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Colleen says:

    Just a thought... if abortion weren't legal, imagine how many adoptive families would no longer have to wait multiple YEARS to have a child. I can't help but think that the children I would gladly raise and care for can be legally murdered (and how many have been while we've waited). Most sane, thinking people acknowledge that a baby dies when an abortion is performed. Some of the more compassionate folks will even say it is "regrettable"... but, really, should be legal to take a life? Should it be considered "regrettable" or "reprehensible"? It seems that in our quest for political correctness, we've grown far too comfortable with people denying the truth of what is really happening... people are dying and we could be doing something about it, but don't want to "offend" anyone.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Barry Wallace [http://barrywallace.wordpress.com/] says:

    I think we're all watching the ultimate politician pretend he knows what he's talking about. How tragic. Thanks for pouring out your heart. Too bad it won't be heard where it most needs to be.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    RF [http://www.threedonia.com] says:

    There’s so much truth in that letter I don’t know where to start in praising it.

    - If the radical feminist agenda had been planned out by misogynist men—men who have no respect for women, men who only want to use women and move on to the next when things get rough—how would it look any different?

    - I’ve often thought that as our society moves towards a population free of birth defects, how much I would miss meeting people with Downs Syndrome. They are the kindest, most loving people in creation.

    - President Obama’s speech was a revelation to me. While reading the transcript I was struck by the realization that pro-choice advocates have painted themselves into a corner so that any mention of justice or equality makes them look either callous or thoughtless. Mr. Knight’s example of “strong vs. weak” jumped out at me, too. So did “Do unto others,” “We are given by God’s grace the ability to see ourselves in others,” and “civil rights for all God’s children.” When I read all of those words I kept adding mentally: “except for the unborn.” What does it say about your position when you cannot cite the golden rule without having it boomerang on you? This is the primary tack I will henceforth take when debating pro-choice advocates.

  • written on 19-May-2009

    Jan says:

    I agree with Mr. Knight's views in the disconnect that our president seems to have between his words and his actions. Certainly, we should be supportive of policies that would encourage adoption and the like. But, the act of abortion is evil. At its core, it is a direct offense to God. It destroys the handiwork of God as He creates human beings made in His image for His good pleasure--the able -bodied and the disabled--and for His purposes. Where does one compromise on evil? There is no compromising on the act of abortion. Perhaps Mr. Knight has pondered this more deeply in relation to his son with disabilities as eugenics and euthanasia have crossed the threshold of our culture.

  • written on 20-May-2009

    Colleen says:

    RF - Our foster baby has Downs - his mother was advised of the possibility mid-pregnancy & we assume she was counseled to abort (& all the more so because she is unmarried with 4 other children already). He is now 7 months old, adorable & the happiest baby I've ever known. I can't imagine our lives without him, but every day women are told that children just like him shouldn't even be born...

  • written on 21-May-2009

    RF [http://www.threedonia.com] says:

    Colleen - God bless you. I worked in a store for many years and several of our customers had Downs. They never failed to lift my spirits. They spread joy, as I'm sure you know.

  • written on 29-May-2009

    Susan says:

    I have been somewhat comforted by reading the above comments. It gets lonely at times when I realize that many people around us have succumbed to the current rhetiric of "rights' and "choice" . Any right that must be asserted over the "rights" of others is no right at all, but gross assumption. It bothers me exceedingly that in the country in which we live we are wading around in the blood of thousands of unborn children - legally - denied life. May the God who initially gave these children life,garciously forgive us. May the children forgive us for not providing for their safety at all cost!

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